Thursday, May 26, 2011

The Lost City of Kota Gelanggi - cover up!

For those who read about it, you will recall that in 2005, the Malaysian Govt was excited about accidentally finding an ancient civilisation in Johor. This was reported in the various newspapers.

There was talk about excavating the huge site to rediscover this civilisation. And then..... silence! After that, no news at all about this discovery.

A number of times I have discussed with friends that there was definitely a cover-up because the authorities did not like what was discovered - something that is contradicting what the Govt is trying to claim. And so many years passed and now I received this email revealing what I suspected to be true! Read on.......

Good to know who are the real Pendatang... The Indians and Chinese were here way before the Malays ... You have to start learning the correct history.

Regards,

LEE Ong Kim (Dr)

Associate Professor and Head

Policy and Leadership Studies

National Institute of Education

NIE2-03-54, 1 Nanyang Walk,

Singapore 637616

Tel: (6... GMT+8h | Fax: (65) 6896-9151 | Email:ongkim.lee@nie.edu.sgWeb: www.nie.edu.sgAn Institute of Nanyang Technological University



A small piece of History for our future generation. Why Kota Gelanggi (lost city) touted as earliest civilisation in Malay Peninsula news was banned as they were Buddhist.

The Johor find of 2005 which was quietly dropped was none other than Kota Gelanggi lost city reflecting Srivijaya and its Buddhist splendour. But they deliberately disregarded it because that would have sidelined Malacca Empire and Islam which was smaller and came some 500 years later. I met Dr Lee Kam Hing, a former History prof at MU in Singapore recently at a seminar. Dr Lee, who is now Star research director, told me he was trying his best to highlight Kota Gelanggi, but that the govt killed it off. This is clearly another case to cover up the real history of Malaya and fool the younger generations into believing that our history only began from Malacca 1400.. Not only that, they try to show Parameswara as Malay and Muslim, but actually he was Hindu! If one were to condemn these UMNO scumbags on how they distort history, it will never end......the condemnations will more than cover 10 PhD thesis!

A small piece of History for our future generation Hitler's public relations manager, Goebbels, once said, 'If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.'

Once again our government wiped out any references to a famous Melaka prince as being Hindu and belonging to the powerful Hindu empire Sri Vijaya. So all of a sudden our museums, school text-books etc. all refer to Parameswara as a Malay prince.

What race ruled or did not rule is beside the point. What is important is not butchering history to create your own truths. You cannot change your race even if you convert - Parameswara could have been responsible for Umno's proud heritage of ' Ketuanan Melayu '.

If this is what it is based on, there is no ' Ketuanan Melayu '. The lineages of Melaka Sultans are Indians, not Malays. It is no secret that Parameswara was an Indian and a Hindu prince. It is clear from records that Parameswara never converted to Islam. He was an Indian Hindu who fled Palembang in Sumatra to eventually found Melaka circa 1400 AD. It was Sri Maharaja who converted himself and the court of Melaka to Islam, and as a result took on the name of Sultan Muhammad Shah sometime after 1435.

The most famous of Indian Hindu Kings were Raja Chola and his son Rajendra Chola who invaded Southern Thailand, Kedah, Perak, Johor and Sumatra about 1000 AD. This is Raja-raja Chola - the Indian/Hindu kings and not Raja Chulan - a Malay king. But what is really sad is that our children are taught as though Malaysian history suddenly began in 1400 with an Islamic Melaka.

We are led to believe that the Indians and Chinese first arrived on the shores of Malaysia in about 1850 as desperate indentured labourers, farmers and miners. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The cultural influences of India in particular, and China, in South East Asia span over 2,000 years, starting with the arrival from India of the Brahmanical prince/scholar - Aji Saka in Java in AD78, through to Vietnam, Cambodia (Indo China), Thailand, Burma, Indonesia, Bali, Borneo, Brunei and beyond.

The findings at Bujang Valley speak of an ancient Indian/Hindu presence in Kedah. There were Chinese settlements in Pahang and Kelantan around the 13th-14th century and in 12th century in Singapore.

The early Brunei Sultanate had a Chinese Queen. One need not ponder at length the implications of Angkor Wat and Borobudur or that 40%-50% of Bahasa Malaysia comprises Sanskrit words. To illustrate, some of these words are :

bumi = boomi singgasana = singgasanam

putra = putran perdana = pirathamar

raja = rajah menteri = manthiri

desa = thesa kapal = kappal

syakti = sakthi samudra = samuthiram

kolam = kulam sepatu = sappattu

bahaya = abahya

jaya = jeya

maha = maha

aneka = aneha

nadi = naadi

kedai = kadai

mahligai = maaligai

mantra = manthrum

tandas = sandas

(This list can go on)


An extremely important archeological find that pointed to one of the greatest empires in history - the Raja Chola empire that ruled from the Maldives through India , Sri Lanka and right down to South East Asia found deep in the jungles of Johor a few years ago and made headlines in the mainstream newspapers in 2005, suddenly disappeared from the news¦..

The time has arrived for us to record our history as the facts tell us and not as we would like to wish it. The truth will never hurt anyone. Lies, always will.

National Institute of Education ( Singapore ) http://www.nie.edu.sg/

100 comments:

Anonymous said...

The Malays belong to the same Large Family of Malays or Rumpun Melayu as the Orang Asli of the Peninsula and the Bumiputeras (natives) of Sabah and Sarawak.

The Constitution spells out the definition of Malays in Malaysia. Habitually speaking the Malay language, practicing the Islamic religion, the Malay customs and traditions are the key factors. Language experts (linguists) have determined that there is also a Large Family of the Malay Language, totaling over 1,200 in all.

The books "The Malay Civilization" and "Tamadun Alam Melayu" published by the Historical Society of Malaysia, provide a broader classification of the Malays, which include the Orang Aslis and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak. The books say that the Malays originated in the Malay Archipelago or Gugusan Pulau Pulau Melayu, to which Semenanjong Tanah Melayu, Sabah and Sarawak belong, over 7,000 years ago. They cultivated padi and had the rice-eating culture even before the mainland Chinese.

The Malays have been in and out of the islands within the Archipelago, including the Malay Peninsula and the island of Borneo, and outwards to Madagascar, Australia, New Zealand, Indo-China, Taiwan, the Malayo Polynesian and Pacific Islands up to Hawai, earlier with their "perahu" fitted with outriggers, later in multi-tiered ships the size of the ancient Roman galleons. They had remarkable ship building and navigational skills which were noted in the historical records of China.

The terms Proto-Malays (Orang Asli), Deutero Malays (the Constitutional Malays, Bumiputeras or natives of Sabah and Sarawak, Indonesians and others), Malayo-Polynesians and Austronesians refer to the same “Large Family of Malays” comprising some 350 million people. The classification was done scientifically by experts in the relevant fields, based on language, physical characteristics, blood types, DNA etc.

Pendatang refers to those who were brought in by the British who they called "coolies" to work in the tin mines, rubber and pepper plantations and in railway construction beginning from the late 19th Century. And those others who came not as coolies.


The Malay Language Family spoken in the Malay Archipelago or Gugusan Pulau Pulau Melayu, and beyond, are spoken by about 350 million people. There are as many as 1,200 languages in the Malay (Austronesian) language family, making it the 2nd largest language family in the world. The Malay languages account for 22% of the languages of mankind.


The scientists have studied the languages of the Malay Archipelago since the time of the British Captain Cook's voyages to the Pacific Ocean. Since then the experts have listed out the number of Malay Languages in some of the areas where Malay is spoken, as follows:

Malay Peninsula: 1 (+4 Aboriginal Malayan languages)
Borneo: 153
Phipippine Islands: 160
Sulawesi: 114
Sumatra Island: 22
Java Island: 3
Taiwan Island: 23
Madagascar Island: 11

Here are examples of the words that have basic similarities in Malay, Tagalog (Filipino), Fijian, Samoan, etc - see if the native language you speak have them:

dua, empat, lima, enam, mata, jalan, pandan, nior. There are of course so many others.

arjuna said...

Here is what Professor C.P. Fitzgerald says in his book, "A Short Cultural History of China" (600+ pages) - he lived in China for 5 years to research and gather material for that book:

The phrase "origin of the Chinese people" is in itself misleading.

1. Chinese culture took root in the plains of Manchuria, a foreign country until after World War II

2. The northern provinces have always to some degree been mixed with "peoples from the Mongolian steppes"

3. The southern and central provinces of China were, before the northerners moved southwards, "covered" by non-Chinese, the Miao, small in size and who the Chinese were contemptuous of.

4. The south was originally occupied by "aboriginal tribes". The ancestors of most of the migrants to Malaya/ sia came from the south. The Professor said, "A large proportion of the population of the south calling itself 'Chinese' is in fact descended from one or other of the aboriginal races" - page 6. Even in modern times, in Yunnan and Kueichouu, tribesmen number half the population.

The southerners comprise the following major groups:

a. Fukienese, "a separate stock, mixed with immigrants from the north and the Yangtze Valley" and speaking "a peculiar dialect".

b. Cantonese, also speak a somewhat alien language, a form of old Chinese - the south was colonized by the northerners, colonization completed in the 7th Century - some 800 years after China was formed as a political entity by Chin Shih Huang Di.

c. Hakkas, of Kuantung province, known as "guest families" - they speak a peculiar dialect, despised by the Cantonese and do not inter marry. These people were said to have come from the north, running away from frequent Mongol invasions in rhe 13th Century.

So, if any of you are referred to as descendants of the Miao (who are aborigines and non-Chinese), or other aborigines of south China, don't blame me, I'm just a messenger of the news. You can't also blame Professor Fitzgerald any more because he died some years ago.


Chinese history claimed China as the "Middle Kingdom", others around them and even far away as "barbaric and uncivilized".

Those thinking theirs is a higher culture and others have a lower one must read what History Professor Wang Gung-Wu (formerly of Universiti Malaya, now in Singapore?) said in his essay “Early Ming Relations with S.E.Asia” pg. 36:

“ … All peoples who believed that they alone were civilized did so because they thought their neighbours less civilized than themselves. This view was often poved wrong by subsequent contact with other civilized peoples.”

Another academician, Albert Kolb, also pointed out in his book, “East Asia”, 1971,

“For a long time, it (Chinese culture) was taken to be older, and possibly also richer in original features, than in fact it is”. (Pg 25).

“Chinese culture cannot be thought of as originally Chinese “because the Chinese themselves emerged gra dually as a blend of many races and peoples”. (Pg 26).


According to Professor Wolfram Eberhard, in his book “A history of China”, 1977, writings about ancient China were inventions of a later period, what were said to have been done by the Chinese rulers and the dates they were said to have been done appeared to be even later still. All these indicated that historical writings in China were meant to serve certain politico-ethical objectives.

Anonymous said...

please ...let politic out of this. Kota Gelanggi must be excavated and show to the world

Anonymous said...

When people are ignorant, it is easy to manipulate to form a fine almost believable twisted truth. Just because Malaysians are generally ignorant of their past, doesn't mean all Malaysians are. I find that there is this motivated movement to dispel history to benefit a certain demographic of people in Malaysia.
Malays were animistic, then they became Hindu. Malay history DID NOT start from Malacca, that is common knowledge and the subject is taught in school, so no sensitivities there.
Merong Mahawangsa, a prince from Persia, arrived into a civilization of Malays / remnants of the Funan empire, and named that place Langkasuka (Kedah) which at that time there were already colonies of Malays and Proto Malays which had been occupying the land for around 50,000 years (Sundaland - before the great flood that drowned the continent and made it into Malay archipelago/Nusantara). At the time of arrival of Merong Mahawangsa in 6/7th AD, trade already happened on the eastern side of the coast, long before Parameswara founded Malacca. Langkasuka was a huge trade port, and yes, Raja Chola came to attack and demolish the kingdom much later.
Parameswara was a HINDU MALAY prince from PALEMBANG, (Indonesia), NOT Indian. The Funan Empire, Langkasuka empire, Sri Vijayan empire, were all Malays who were Hindus at that time, these are known as Ancient Malay Kingdoms. The Malays have been on this land since 50,000 years ago, 15,000 years ago the great flood drowned the Sunda continent. As the earlier seafarers (Read Oppenheimer Eden in the East), Malays have traveled to India and took on the Hindu religion and culture and brought back to Sundaland. Studies have shown that the Hindu temples in India bear NO resemblance to the Candi / temples / pura of Malay-Nusantara found in Kedah (possibly Gelanggi), Indonesia especially Bali, and the candi/pura in this region IS UNIQUELY Malays.
The Malays have always known we were Hindu before Islam came in, and Animistic/Pagans before Hinduism was brought back... most of our culture today is still Hinduism and Animistic that had existed for thousands of years, so no sensitivity there either.
If the government decide to cover up the finding of Kota Gelanggi , it is NOT because :
I) it gives evidence of the Indians as the first settler on this land, because Indians were never here during the Srivijaya Kingdom.
II) it is not because the Malaysian Muslim government do not want to reveal we Malays were Hindus at one point, because that is NOT sensitive (or else the Candi at Lembah Bujang would not be preserved and have museum there to account the details of hinduism amongst the malays then).
Recently a Thai Professor claimed that Malay is not a race, rather a terminology coined by the British post independence… Strange that the professors from the neighboring countries bear one thing in common, I guess it’s a standard practice for Singaporean and Thai Professors to not do research first?
Or is this another one of those attempts such as “Hang Tuah is Chinese” findings done by a non-existent department in the University of Michigan?

Anonymous said...

Question: if it's sensitive for Malays to be Hindus, then what about the Malays who are non-Muslims, whom are called the "Bumiputras".

(In 1700s, the term Malay was to describe the race of the seafaring people made up of various tribes, that spread from Africa to Madagascar to Sundaland and Taiwan to Pacific Islands of Hawaii to Rapa Nui & New Zealand. 1850 the term Indonesia was coined to describe Polynesian race inhabiting Indian Archipelago. Further division of Polynesia and Malay Archipelago was termed to describe areas of european colonies/ territories. Oceania was coined in 1880 to describe Austronesian speaking regions. 20th century saw the rise of nationalism where Indonesian and Malays are political description tied up to Islam and countries. Austronesia was a terminology used in 1920s to describe non-political linguistic ties. check out the list of reference below the video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oShirKsUDAk&feature=share )

Iliyas Ismail said...

Hi, this article is incorrect. Let me just go straight to the point

1) Malays are not ashamed about our pre-Islamic history. We all acknowledge the existence of the Buddhist Srivijaya and Hindu-Buddhist Majapahit Empires. They reigned the Malay Peninsular and Indonesian Islands from th 7th-13th century and 13th to 16th century respectively. If we are in denial, we would just bury this history and not publish it in our textbooks.

The fact is, that there is just not much information on Kota Gelinggi, it is believed to be part of the Srivijayan Empire. That's it.

2) Parameswara was not an Indian, he was a Malay Hindu. The city of Palembang, Indonesia is inhabited by Malays. Go and visit. They look like us Malays and their language is similar to Malaysian Malay. It is false to say that the "lineages of the Mallacan sultans were Indian". They were Malay or at least a mixture of related Nusantara people, like Javanese, Minangkabau etc.

Even if they had some Indian blood. they did not potray themselves in language and culture as Indian, but as Malays.

3) It is not clear from records that Parameswara DID NOT convert to Islam as well. However, he did marry the princess of Muslim Pasai, so therefore he likely converted to Islam. Even if we grant that he did not convert, his son did, and all the rest of the Malaccan kings were Muslims. So, it doesn't really matter whether Parameswara converted or not but he likely did.

4) We know that Malay borrows a lot of words from Sanskrit, as well as English and Arabic. So what?

5) It is false to say "Chinese and Indians were here way before Malays". The Orang Aslis (Semang, Senoi and Proto Malays) and Deutero Malays collectively have been here for more than 4000 years and have always been the dominant and majority people in the peninsular. The Deutero Malays (direct ancestors of the Malays) came around 300 BCE. Sure, there were Chinese and Indian traders that came by throughout history, but there were also Arabs, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch and people from other nations as well.

But God-forbid, if any of the Arabs or Portuguese people in Malaysia want to establish Arabic and Portuguese vernacular schools, we will fight to the very end. Strangely, the Chinese and Indians in Malaysia have their very own schools, even though this is not China nor India.


Nobody could deny the fact, that the overwhelming majority of Chinese and Indians in Malaysia were recent immigrants and came as coolies and were labourers brought in by the British during the 18th and 19th century. They are not from around here (Nusantara) , but the Malays were generous enough to grant all of them citizenship without even requiring them to be assimilated into mainstream Malay society.

Consider these facts:
1) Brunei denies 90% of their Chinese people citizenship until today.
2) Chinese Indonesians were required to adopt Indonesian names and Chinese schools were banned and closed in the 60s.
3) Chinese Thais also were compelled to adopt Thai names or risk being ostracised and viewed as outsiders by the local Thais. Chinese vernacular schools were banned and closed in the 30s and 40s.
4) Burmese Chinese have Burmese names and speak Burmese language as their first language
5) Cambodian Chinese have Cambodian names adopt Cambodian religion.
6) Chinese Filipinos have Filipino names and the majority adopt Catholicism just like the majority of native Filipinos.

Only in Malaysia do the Chinese and Indians are able to maintain seperate language schools (even though Malay is the National Language), maintain their names, refuse to master Malay language, fail to understand Islam and the Malay culture, and refuse to identify with the Malay indigeneous culture.

Iliyas Ismail said...

With regards to Raja Chola conquering parts of South East Asia. With respect to Tanah Melayu, the invading foreigner Raja Chola of India only managed to capture Kedah and parts of Johor from the Srivijayan Empire. They didn't replaced the Srivijayan Empire, and they were ultimately expelled and sent back to where they came from.

The Portuguese, Dutch and British were also here hundreds of years ago, is that an argument to say "White People were in Malaya before the Malays"? This is absurd and ludicrous. So, to say Raja Chola managed to capture some parts of Malaya or Tanah Melayu doesn't serve your argument. Chinese and Indians will always be regarded as "pendatang" unless they decide to uphold Bahasa Malaysia and being proud and identify themselves with the Bumiputera cultures and traditions.

Anonymous said...

Whaaat? This guy is Associate Professor and Head of NIE? For someone in his position, he doesn't seem to have had much schooling in Southeast Asian history.

Anonymous said...

This is copied from Wikipedia. PLEASE NOTE: KOTA GELANGGI IS ONE OF THE OLDEST PRE-ISLAMIC KINGDOMS, I repeat...PRE-ISLAMIC KINGDOMS.....dating 650-900.

Kota Gelanggi is an archaeological site reported in 2005 as potentially the first capital of the ancient Empire of Srivijaya and dating to around 650–900 and one of the oldest pre-Islamic Kingdoms on South East Asia's Malay Peninsula. The site's existence was announced as a 'discovery' by the Malaysian press on 3 February 2005.[1]
The reported site of the ancient city is in the dense jungles of the southern Malaysian state of Johor Darul Takzim, near a forest reserve currently managed as the Linggiu Dam water catchment area by the Public Utilities Board (PUB) of Singapore. This puts the site somewhere within a 140-square-kilometre (54 sq mi) area of the forest reserve surrounding Sungai Madek and Sungai Lenggiu.
[edit]Description and archaeology

The early 17th century Malay literary work Sejarah Melayu (Malay Annals) records that Kota Gelanggi lies on the upper reaches of the Johor River with a main fort made of black stone (or Kota Batu Hitam in Malay). "Kota Gelanggi" may derive from the Malay mispronunciation of the Thai word Ghlong-Keow or "Box of Emeralds", hence in Malay, Perbendaharaan Permata (Treasury of Jewels). Some scholars[who?] believe that the city formed part of the Ayutthaya Kingdom, and may therefore be the unidentified 12th Naksat city of ancient Siamese folklore. Ancient Tamil inscriptions show that the city was raided in 1025 by South Indian Chola Dynasty conqueror Rajendra Chola I, after he had destroyed the Malay Kingdom of Gangga Negara. The latter is generally equated with the ruins and ancient tombs that can still be seen in Beruas district in the state of Perak. Old European maps of the Malay Peninsula show the location of a city known as Polepi (i.e. Gelanggi) at the southern tip of the Malay Peninsula.[2]
References to Kota Gelanggi were reported in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by colonial scholar-administrators including Dudley Francis Amelius Hervey (1849–1911), who published eye witness reports of the city in 1881 and Sir Richard Olof Winstedt (1878–1966), who stated that an Orang Asli (indigenous group) was prepared to take people to the site in the late 1920s. The ancient city was also known to the adventurer-explorer Gerald Gardner (1884–1964), who discovered the ruins of Johore Lama while searching for Kota Gelanggi.
Recent evidence of the city's existence and approximate location was presented as the result of a decade-long research project based on Malay manuscripts, cartographical and topographical surveys, aerial inspections and assessments of local folklore. Based on these sources a preliminary discussion on the subject was published as a lengthy academic paper entitled The "Lost City" of Kota Gelanggi[3] in 2004. Prior to its publication, the paper's author Raimy Che-Ross, an independent researcher, had tabled and discussed his findings with experts at the Asia Research Institute (ARI), National University of Singapore, the Johor Chapter of Badan Warisan Malaysia (Malaysian Heritage Trust) and archaeologists at the Jabatan Muzium dan Antikuiti Malaysia (Museums and Antiquities Department of Malaysia), between January–June 2004. The paper received wide coverage in the Malaysian media, who prematurely reported the introductory article as the announcement of a major "discovery". This prompted the then Minister for Heritage, Culture and the Arts to announce ambitious plans for selected museum and government officials to "discover" the city.

Anonymous said...

On April 28, 2006, the Malaysian National News Service (Bernama) reported that the "Lost City does not exist". Khalid Syed Ali, Curator of Archaeology in the Department's Research and Development Division, said a team of government appointed researchers had carried out a month-long study in July 2005 but found no trace of the "Lost City". However, Khalid later added that "the Heritage Department (Jabatan Warisan) does not categorically deny that it exists, only that research carried out until now [over the month of July 2005] has not shown any proof that can verify the existence of the ancient city of Linggiu [sic]"[4] When pressed for details, Khalid revealed that Che-Ross[who?] had not been involved in the museum's search team for the lost city.
Three elder Orang Asli headmen from the Linggiu Dam area nonetheless insist that the city exists; according to Tuk Batin Abdul Rahman (85), "the city is very large, I have seen it myself because it was located near my village. I estimate its fort to be approximately forty feet square, with three holes like windows along its walls", adding that the area was formerly his home and that of fifty other Orang Asli families, before they were moved out by the British due to the Communist threat in the late 1940s–50s. He further said that he had first stumbled across the fort in the 1930s, while foraging for jungle produce. Tuk Batin Abdul Rahman's statements were independently verified by Tuk Batin Daud, 60 and Tuk Batin Adong, 58, who added that their people had visited the site on numerous previous occasions and had seen the black stone walls themselves.[5] Two old manuscript drawings believed to depict the ruins are in the possession of Tuk Batin Adong. The rough outline coloured sketches show a large building surrounding a steep hill with two circular apertures on the walls on each side of the entrance.
The Kota Gelanggi of Johor Darul Takzim should not be confused with the Kota Gelanggi Caves near Jerantut in Pahang Darul Makmur. The Kota Gelanggi Caves of Jerantut hold Neolithic sites, with no evidence of further substantial habitation beyond that period despite extensive archaeological digs in its caverns by the museums department.
...cont from Wikipedia

In late May 2008, the Malaysian Press reported the discovery of an ancient bronze vessel or Kendi near a river close to Mentakab, Pahang Darul Makmur that may be associated with the ancient city of Kota Gelanggi in Johor Darul Takzim. Both sites are linked by a network of rivers once believed to form a trade route cutting across the Malay Peninsula.

IF WE CAN FIND RAIMY CHE-ROSS, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO FIND OUT WHY HE WAS CENSORED!!! Then, post the information in Wikipedia for all to read!!!

Anonymous said...

Hmmm ...

One correction here. You DO NOT have to be Indian to be Hindu.

The locals on Bali Islands are Hindus but they are not Indians. They are part of the 'nusantara' or Malay-ethnic group.

The Malays or Melayu race in nusantara (which are now Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, the Cocos Islands and some Islands in the Pacific) are part of the 'nusantara' or Malay-ethnic group.

Yes, the ancestors of the Malay group first had animistic beliefs ... much like the Red Indians on the American Continent - believing in spirits of nature, etc
... then later most converted to Hinduism which were brought by the Indians through trade, some converted to Buddhism as well.

Around 1100AD, Islam came to the Malay archipelago thru trade as well ...

There's nothing to be ashamed about what our ancestors believed.

The Arabs' ancestors were pagans, idol worshipers and some converted to Christianity and Judaism before Muhammad's time ... and they acknowledge that.

The past is the past. What's important is what you are now and what you will be in the future.

pemerhati sejarah said...

Pemerhati Sejarah

most of the comments need to be validated with events ,place and subject matter ! As a matter of fact renowned Hindu civilization has been noted very much before this so called malay archipelago existed ! How on earth that Sanskrit and Tamil got in entangled and enriched the malay language! which fact can hold water do this and whatever has been discover in peninsular Malaya and in Indonesia ! How did Malaya got its name " MALAYA " which EPIC came earlier than Ramayana ... and how could Characters in Wayang Kulit are explicitly portrayed as we have witnessed and enriched the Malaysian identity ! Long live the king is well said as Theergaayul !

Addressing the king humbly with utmost respect ... Sri Paduka this term is used to reckon the foot of the king in Ramayana .Thus it is assimilation over the years and this does mean that we need to get offended at all but with open heart accept the truth ... do not distort facts !

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Anonymous said...

What does it matter who came first? As long as we citizens, we should be accorded equal status, not referred to as pendatangs. Any modern democracy treat all citizens well. Now even Indians have bumiputa status. HOW COME?

Anonymous said...

SORRY I Meant Indons

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone,
I want to make clear things related 'Indians', 'Hindhu' and their 'languages'. Well Hindhu is Indians religion and they have various languages in many places. This includes Tamil, Sanskrit and many more. All the Hindus are Indians. In this case, if there is the term 'Malay-Hindhu' it reflect the language spoken by Indians in that particular place. Malay doesn't borrow any word from Tamil or Sanskrit, they are Indians as well and this is the main reason Tamil, Sanskrit, Hindhi exist almost 80% of Malay language. Malay is just a language not the peoples. Those peoples are Indians. The word Malay itself an Indian-Tamil word Malay= 'Malai' which means hill. If see through the India , the tribal ethnic peoples are living in forest/hills/caves. These peoples culture is 100% same with Malaysia's Orang Asli and Indonesian peoples. Long way back in Indonesia those peoples lived in forest hills and the language they spoked named as forest hills people language and soon called as Malay language. Parameswara is an Indian and he spoked Tamil language and other Indian languages at back. This can be proven by his name Parameswaran in Tamil. He stays Indian till his last breath and he does not marry any Islam woman. That can turn him to say as Islam king. Malaysia's history is extremely manipulated by Malaysian-Islamic leaders once in time because they did not have any 'good' history to be taught in future.

Anonymous said...

Tiada satu bukti bertulis pun Melayu itu adalah India, ia hanyalah teori semata-mata..tetapi bukti untuk Melayu bukan india masih wujud dalam artifak dan sastera melayu lama.

Hon-Kit said...

Typical of ketuanan melayu buggers who insist their culture is the ONLY recognized one in Malaysia.

Tanah Melayu never existed as in Malaysia was never known as it.

Anonymous said...

It is very easy to determine whether you are a 'pendatang' or a native (bumiputera). This region was commonly called as Malay archipelago or Nusantara before the colonials; however, you can ignore the term 'Malay' and leave it as the archipelago. The acid test is to trace you ancestors; i.e., you father, your father's father, your father's father's father and so on. If any of those ancestors of yours; i.e., within 2, 3, 4 or 5 generations before you come from India, China or somewhere else out of this archipelago, you are a 'pendatang'. Like the Dr. Lee Ong Kim; his grandfather came direct from China, can he claim to be a native of this archipelago? His grandfather is a migrant, his father is a son of a migrant, therefore he is a pendatang.

The Malays are natives of this archipelago. There was neither Indonesia or Malaysia before the colonials came. Of course, there were other empires like the Srivijaya, Majapahit, Langkasuka et cetera; there were not Malaysia before 1957 and no Indonesia before 1947. But these are Malay empires; whether they are Hindus or Buddhists or animism, they were Malays. They were not Chinese or Indians.

Like I said, it is easy. The Chinese and Indians in Malaysia and Singapore today should ask their father or grandfather could whether they could recall any of their near ancestors that did came from China or India. I never doubt that some could be recognised as natives here like the Baba Melaka and Straits Chinese; but you must admit that most of the Chinese and Indians are in fact a pendatang; i.e. either your grandfather or great grandfather did arrive here from India or China or somewhere else.

Anonymous said...

The Bigot-iliyas...wwwwwwwwhat's thiss???Mana mali ini dongeng?? Siapa pentulis tazan-tara??Kalo semua bukan pendateng,mana ada homo-eretus kat SEA?Adam & Hawa?
Malayo dateng dari Benua Asia,itu China!Tamalun India mali-lah !Palameswara India punya putara!
Kadalam 6tm,itu Kedah Hindu-punya kuasa hingga 8 tm islam mali!

Anonymous said...

In replying to the first-most comment,foremost,the Sabahans & Sarawakians natives were from Taiwan,after coming over from China!They spreaded all over the Pacific rim islands & this British-named Malay archipelago( Malay's from the name Malayo).
When the Old World peoples creossed over to the New World,Malayo Polynesian tribes also migrated south to China's Funan 8000 years ago!Thus, farther south to this archipelago!
It was the Guptas from India, who extended their civilization here BC.Sanskrit-ed words were shared, & customaries used by the malays here were from the Indians!
Chinese didn't arrived as coolies! They were already learning Buddhism & Hinduism before the arrival of Islam in the 8th AD!In exchange,the Chinese traded using coins with the Indians,as civilization crossed borders!
India Sri Vijayan's prince Parameswara's from Palembang,as Sumatra was the stronghold for the Indians crossing from the Indian Ocean.

Anonymous said...

history of malacca..
The word of mallaca in tamil means fall upside down..
That's where the king parameswara saw a dear kick a dog and the dog fall upside down in the river..
Hindu's will put names of incident to the place there recide .and the names will normally follow any incident happen there..

When the prince is there saw the incident ,do you think he ask his followers who first time came to the place , what tree is they all sitting and rest.
And do you think the followers from palembang say it ..oh it;s pokok melaka,, Funny how malaysian books write like that and now started to missing..

Secondly the singapura , also sama as that. When parameswara first arrived at this island , he saw lion .. That's why the name derived from it singam means lion and puram mean town..and it become singapur

Anonymous said...

And the word malaya .. who put it..
When the first invaders came to this land.. they saw the country with many hills and mountain..Same goes as malaysia dengan banjaran banjaranya.. Many hills ..

Indian called it malai ur. malai means mountain and hills..ur means land
And people living there ( orang asli as still leaving now )is call hill people .. orang malai..

That's how malaya got it's name originnaly and in later changed to Malaysia..

Let's talk about Indonesia..
The word originnaly is hindu dhesam.. Where dhesam means country and indo comes from Hindu

Land of Hindu outside India.

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Tak perlu risau atau berdebat tentang bangsa yang mula-mula datang ke Nusantara.....yang pastinya adalah kewujudan benua KUMARIKANDAM 50 000 tahun sebelum masihi yang telah tenggelam ke dalam laut 50 000 tahun sebelum masihi dan permulaan pengunaan bahasa Tamil 100 000 tahun sebelum masihi.


Ini adalah bahasa-bahasa yang wujud dahulu kala

Indo-Aryans
Indo-Iranians
Indo-Aryan migration
Proto-Vedic Continuity
The family of Brahmic scripts

Siapakah yang akan menjawab soalan-soalan ini.........Kenapa agama Hindu yang terawal dalam dunia? kenapa sastera Tamil yang terawal di dunia?
jangan kita berassabiyah kawan-kawan sedangkan kita bukan lagi di zaman jahiliah........

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Nota-nota muzik sa ri ga ma pa dha ni telah pun bermula sejak abad ke ke 6 tahun masihi bagi penujaan dewa-dewa Hindu. Adakah wujud nota-nota muzik yang lain selain daripada do re mi fa sol la ti yang wujud sekitar abad 19?

Anonymous said...

Please friends we must be careful not to hurt others feelings. The truth is Indians from the submerged continent Kumarikandam had set up and ruled in few SEA countries long before any existence of any kingdoms in SEA. The only thing they did was they left the place where the ruled after the advent of Islam in SEA, because Hindu-Buddha teachings professes to be ahimsa(no brutalism to another human).
We should ask these questions. How do we have created relations such as mother, father, brother, adik ipar, abang ipar, bapa mertua, emak mertua, besan dan sebagainya? semua hubungan ini sudah pun ada dalam tamadun India berabad dahulu......

Kamarul Azhar said...

Is that all that you can muster to reply dude? At least have some balls to counter argue whatever arguments that the fella has put up. Tanah Melayu never existed? Dude, you dont have to go that far, just read up the Proclamation of Independence and find out what name was used to describe Malaya then. Was it not Persekutuan Tanah Melayu? I dare to cut my balls if it wasnt.

Kamarul Azhar said...

No one here except you is distorting facts. Malay is a fluid culture, and it is rightfully so as we live in the middle of trade routes between east and west. It is just normal and organic that we assimilate other languages and cultures to enrich our own. That does not mean that we changed our color from brown to black. We are still Malay, and this land is ours and for our generations to come. Still, that does not in any way deny the rights of other races to live together with us and share the abundant prosperity that this land has to offer. As long as the sun shall rise and the moon shall set, this land will forever known as the land of the Malays, as much as India is known as the land of the Indians, and China for the Chinese etc.

Kamarul Azhar said...

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Indians and chinese burn their loved ones after death. Malays burry their loved ones. Chinese and indians have absolutely no idea what things are called. Malays have a name for every animal, plant etc. The chinese claim wan and hang are chinese. Ive lived for some time, did not come accross a chinese with a wan or hang surname, instead it is the melayu with such names. Today, a large majority of india and chinese are reverting to islam. ISLAM is not a racial religion. A religion that makes sense. Ask Farid Ravi or Hussein Yee or Riddhuan Tee, they are the true indian and chinese.

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anak peneroka said...

Indian has to learn to make a different between malay and Tamil..whatever the religion they are...race cant change...all malay know that our ancestor was hindus before islam came here..are malay shock to know it??? NOOO..we knew it already...theres a lot of different.. i think why dont indian claim indonesia..because indonesia once hindus..say tha all indonesia people were indian.. let make world laugh at all indian...hahahhaha...

Go to indonesia and thailand where a lot of temple still there..then look at thais and indonesians..are they look like tamil???

Hahaha...hindus doest make malay to be tamil..we are different!!!!! Malay civilization not tamil civilization...

Thuraiswaran Anandan said...

"overwhelming majority of Chinese and Indians in Malaysia were recent immigrants and came as coolies," it's wrong to say that Chinese and Indians in Malaysia are recent immigrants because they didn't come to this country like yesterday or something. Yes, my ancestors were immigrants but I'm a Malaysian because I was born here and the Constitution upholds my rights as a citizen of this country.

Thuraiswaran Anandan said...

Is it right to label we,Malaysians, as "pendatang" just because our ancestors were immigrants. I was born here and so I'm rightfully a Malaysian. Anyone who says otherwise are extremely wrong. In that case, doesn't that mean Malays are pendatang too as their ancestors came from other part of the world and settled down here along with the orang asli. Even worse Malays can be called with extremely derogatory terms as there is no one single theory of their origin has been proven. Malays' origin is still a mystery and you only have theories of your origin and not sound facts to exactly trace your origin.

Thuraiswaran Anandan said...

Is it right to label we,Malaysians, as "pendatang" just because our ancestors were immigrants. I was born here and so I'm rightfully a Malaysian. Anyone who says otherwise are extremely wrong. In that case, doesn't that mean Malays are pendatang too as their ancestors came from other part of the world and settled down here along with the orang asli. Even worse Malays can be called with extremely derogatory terms as there is no one single theory of their origin has been proven. Malays' origin is still a mystery and you only have theories of your origin and not sound facts to exactly trace your origin.

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If one were to strecth back history of humanity right to its creation by God. Then, one can all lay legitimate claims as all the commentators of various racial origins here. As said earlier, we are all homo sapiens; and modern homo sapiens have a proven lineage of descendants from the first early humans of Africa. In a way, we are all immigrants. What so rigid, hard-up, extreme at at juncture in historical time or what racial origins we supposedly decended from? After all, when qe go back to meet our creator, He is not going to emphasize too meet the colour of yr skin, the language you acquire, the knowledge, skills, traits you you develop or acquire, HE will judge one according to the good deeds, bad deeds and ugly deeds we have done or have failed to do to fellow humanitu. Cheers and be merciful.

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Dr Azwan said...

Î concur with your opinion. There is no sensitivity knowing that we were hindu back then. It was a known fact.

Anonymous said...

The Persians did it

Anonymous said...

The word MALAY(people) DIRECTED FROM THE name of a LAND CALLED MALAYA(country)="MALAI"(Tamizh. "MALAI"= gunung=HILLY LAND.just thought of sharing.

Anonymous said...

No more prove nor evidence available. All been white wash.

chambers R said...

MARCO POLO has mentioned Malaya as Malayur which is typically Tamil which meant mountainous region which was later known as Malaya and now Malaysia. Kedah was known as Kadaram when the Tamil Chola were ruling then . So the fundamental Malay identity is front he term MALAYUR in a net shell.
Chola Empire Cheng Ho Parameswara are the fundamental sculptors of Malaysia

anak peneroka said...

Why trying so hard to dig unclear fact...why don't just accept the clear fact..every malaysian know that most indian were brought here by british..so they are not related to the history before year 1900...fullstop!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

a poor research claim by a poor die doctor..get lost

Unknown said...

Why are you so scared that the truth will reveal soon. Pls go and search for Kumarikandam. You will know everything then

Unknown said...

Why are you so scared that the truth will reveal soon. Pls go and search for Kumarikandam. You will know everything then

marrr marrr said...

Why are you so scared that the truth will reveal soon. Pls go and search for Kumarikandam. You will know everything then

rocky said...

Hahahahaha bastard its fake y cant u admit the truth mfuckers

Mahzan Isa said...

Fuck you bastards... how can you indian n chinese can be so stupid to think that only Indian n Chinese is Hindu/Buddha..Malays was once also practiced Hinduism and Buddism before Islam came around.. before the prophet Muhammad era..

Learn more about history and culture you stupid human being..!

Anonymous said...

The Malay Annals can be quite misleading at times. I have been reading the translated version by Dr. John Leyden in 1821 and found that the descendants of Palembang kings supposedly were descendants of 'Raja Secandar of Rum' and the daughter of 'Raja Kida Hindi'[1]. The 'Raja Secandar' was supposedly Alexander the Great. While he did attempted to invade India, his final battle however was with King Porus at northern part of India (The Battle of the Jhelum River).The badly wounded Alexander eventually returned to Macedonia after this battle and died. We could conclude here that Alexander had never invaded the South Indian kingdom. According to 'Malay Annals', the three princes born to the descendant of supposedly Alexander were 'Raja Heran', 'Raja Suran' and 'Raja Panden'[2]. From ancient South Indian historical record, there were three great dynasties namely, the Cheras, the Cholas and the Pandiyas (four actually is including the Pallawas). The names depicted in the ‘Malay Annals’ do appear similar to the South Indian dynasties. The 'Raja Suran' apparently married Putri Gangga of Gangga Nagara[3]. From the marriage, they had three princes namely Bitchitram Shah (Sang Sapurba), Nila Pahlawan and Carna Pandita[4]. Bitchitram Shah (a.k.s Sang Sapurba) weds the princes of the Palembang King Damang Lebar Daun who claims to be the great-grandson of Raja Sulan[5]. Sang Sapurba (Trimarti trib'huvena) who all this while was referred to as descendant of 'keturunan Raja Hindustan', was appointed as a 'Malay' King of Palembang by Damang Lebar Daun [6]. We could observe here that according to Sulalatus Salatin, the descendant of South Indian King eventually became a 'Malay' king at Palembang where the Sungai Malayu was said to be located [9]. Sang Sapurba was also appointed as the Minangkabau King at Celantan (Kelantan?) according to the same text. The author of Sulalatus Salatin (descendant of Mani Farindan (Purindan) who was a Tamil-muslim) went further to declare that the descendants of ‘Raja Pagaroyung’ were in-fact were from this lineage [14]. Mount Sagantang Maha Miru referred in the text is supposedly axis of the universe in classical Indian thought [15]. Please verify the references provided below. Thank you.
Reference:
1.John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 4
2. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 7
3. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 7
4. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 10
5. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 10
6. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 22
7. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 27
8. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 20
9. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 29
10. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 34
11. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 36
12. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 29
13. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 26, 31
14. John Leyden (1821). Malay Annals, page 39
15. Bosch 1960: 95-98

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